If you want to see why parking is a failure look at down town. That place has paid parking and people go to the malls. Same thing with the beach. During the summer season the spirit catcher parking lot is always empty along with the other paid parking lots.

People are not stupid. They go where parking is free. If we start charging for parking everywhere, that means they will leave and not come back! There goes our tourest dollars and here comes the tax increases for the loss! I have had enough paying for the loss of down town businesses and I don't want to pay for another failed idea. We need this to go ahead so our property taxes will not keep rising

Carl's own comments can really prove why this is a great idea.

If we use Carl's example it shows why everyone should be charged to use the beach, local or not. For how do we know whether those cars are out of town or not and what relevance does people who want to drive their kids to school has on beach parking? It does not. If parents want to drive their kids to school, that would be their choice. On top of that we have school buses. But nothing in that example is realated to parking what so ever. You don't park at a school. You would drop them off and that would be that. There are alternatives if there are not enough seats in your car and who you take is a personal matter as a car is a personally owned vehicle not owned by the public or paid by the public.

So the example he tries to fit on the beach simply does not work. Both out of towners AND locals pay taxes. So it isn't just the two kids paying taxes and then those other kids. In his own examples, all the occupants of the "car" pay for its use. So you cannot simply turn away out of towners in favour of locals when at least out of towners contribute to the economy and not the locals.

Then there is his argument about population growth. If that was really the case, his own arguments prove why the beach may be over crowded as there are now more locals. Thus locals themselves should pay for access and NOT the out of towners following his own logic. But out of towners or not, people in general are not stupid. They will use alternatives and thus will drive down one of the last industries this wonderful community depends on to get us through the harsh winters.

Like he said it is first come first serve. That is how public spaces work. You cannot make a preference on who uses the beach, it is not private land.

As a tax paying Barrie citizen I certinly think it is ok for everyone to park there for free and the reason is simple. I simply will not blame "out of towners" for our own problems. That is nothing more than prejudice thinking and is no different than blaming a person for our social and or economic problems based on a persons color, race, religion etc. it is what weak minded people do to justify their own personal failures in life and I and others should not have to entertain and or pay for such flaws thinking.

The problem here is thinking there is a problem here in the first place making Carls own questions irrelevant.

If you bring your family and the beach is "full", then you wait for a better day or plan ahead like any normal person would do. If you are arguing that our population is growing then you know why said beach is full and the taxes we pay today is more than enough to cover expenses.

However the reality today is that the beaches are never full. Not even on the hottest of days and when they are it is only for one or two festivals which barely lasts a few hours.

If there is not enough tax money to extend the beach without going into debt, then that outlines the reality rather than someone's view on it.

These actions do not ensure viability for our town. There is no need to extend our beach nor is the exuse of "growth population" valid. The idea that somehow out of towners are not paying their worth is also not valid and by driving them away effectively puts my property taxes up further to compensate for the loss of revenu. With a declining population and that loss, it will mean property taxes will have to double just to maintain what we have and that is not acceptible just because someone has the idea that out of towners are somehow to blame

very interesting comments, sounds like commenters do not associate
higher town population with a need to regulate who uses the beach even when sited with other towns that do the same thing.

Not sure why city growth and population is confusing as to how many spots there are on a beach, but will try again.

Say you have a car that only sits 5 people and you drive your 2 kids and 2 neighbour kids to school in it everyday. Then your sister goes away and has you look after her two kids, who also go to the same school. All the kids want to be driven to school 4 kids are family, 2 kids are neighbours that you are not close with at all, but you had some extra space in your car and are a friendly helpful person.Its Saturday night and all the kids go to school on monday. What do you do?

Now think of the barrie beach as the 5 person car and your 2 kids as the tax paying people of Barrie and the 2 neighbour kids as people living outside of Barrie.

If a beach only holds so many people who do you turn away? How do you suggest the city of Barrie controls who gets to you use the beach and who gets turned away when its full?

It has been first come gets to use the beach and when it is full to bad for everyone else.

I understand why out of towners would not like having to pay to use the Barrie beach, but do not understand why someone who lives and pays taxes in Barrie would think it is ok, if they went to use the beach and it was full. Would you not ask your city to fix the problem so you and your children could enjoy the beach of the town you live in? Do you think the city should charge you more taxes to build another beach to make room for your family and out of town people not paying taxes to Barrie?

On January 27, 2014, Council approved implementing paid parking for non-residents at the waterfront. This decision was made to ensure the viability of the downtown commercial activity and support the City’s parking needs in a financially sustainable fashion, and provides more effective cost-recovery for parking services.

I agree with most commentators here. How can you sit there and blame out of towners and then wax on about population growth? That means more locals, more locals means a more crowded beach? So how is out of towners at fault. They should make it free for everyone or charge everyone.

Carls comments are confusing. He says it is a "fact" that Barrie is growing, he says that our roads are more congested and says more people are shopping and eating in Barrie, how that is an indicator I will never know as restaurants and shops can get customers from all over the place, including out of towners which help in our local economy. If our roads are more congested, wouldn't that indcate that there are more locals at our beach and therefore it isn't the out of towners that are really the problem.

Why Barrie grabbed the innisfill land has more to do with politics than it does with our population growth or decline nor does it have anything to do with this debate or idea.

What Toronto does is no consern to us but only heightens what others have stated here. A mistake we can learn from and something we should not be repeated. How would charging out of towners limit space fairly if what he states is a "fact" (his opinion) that Barrie is getting more conjested. He is double speaking and contradicting his own arguments.

I think he has to take his own advice and use the web to search for the information properly so he is more informed before posting here. So far he has not backed up any of his points and has actually tried to say that we are growing and yet support this idea and proving we are in a decline at the same time. I agree with him that this and the Internet as a whole is a great place to view why someone is for or against a proposition and often times with such debates such as this, proves why this is a good idea in the first place and needed to be implemented.

As he stated, people make a great city. That is very true. That means being open l, friendly and welcoming to everyone. Including those out of towners the minority here seem to hate.

Let's make Barrie a great city together and implement this idea

It's a fact Barrie is growing, try to find information to say it is on the decline. Then ask your self why Barrie needed more land from Innisfil if it is loosing population, why are the streets more congested, who is shopping and eating at all the new building they keep making ever year? Why are housing prices going up and my taxes with it?

So when people of Barrie travel to Toronto will we get free parking?? Of course not because a city does this during growth to control limited space fairly.

Do people from Barrie have to pay to even go to beaches on lake Simcoe, yes, Innifil Beach for example.

Please if you have a point to make search the web first. Then if you find what you believe really is true share the information with the rest of us to back up your points, as this is a great forum to read others veiw points to help understand why someone is for or against a proposition.

People make a city great =D

This is a great idea!

I don't get Carls comments. First he claims Barrie is booming. Then blames people from Toronto for taking up space? If Barrie is "booming" then wouldn't that indicate why there is less room at the beach since there are more LOCALS now? How would Carl even know they are from Toronto or locals or not? Seems a bit prejudice if you ask me.

Do because others have made mistakes we should make the same mistake for charging for water front access as well? That makes no sense!

The waterfront belongs to EVERYONE! It is crown land and thus as long as you are a member of the public then you are entitled to enjoy it for free!

If Carl or others want waterfront space, he is allowed to purchase it like everyone else who purchases property. He and others are not entitled to privatize a public space paid by everyone (including people deemed "out of town") and then treat it like it is private property

In response to carls post. That article does not prove anything. People write articles about subjects and give their opinions everyday. However such opinions are not fact. If Barrie is growing as Carl claims, then there would be more people at the beach. Which in itself contradicts Carls statement.

As someone who has lived here, I have seen this place grown and now on the decline. I agree with Andrea's statements. There was a time when we did have so much going for us and having the water front open so that tourists can spend their money on our economy is definitely one of them.

We have lost so much in our great community so what sense is it to get rid of yet another one just to appease a minority few that wants the beach all to themselves. It is a public beach made for everyone.

Is it ok that people charge us for parking? No it is not and for that very reason I and many many many others do not go to those beaches. Instead they come to ours and spend their hard earned money here. Are they coming here for free. Well I already mentioned that they do not. They park for free but they spend money. Money we need for our local economy and for our growth to which Carl claims and then contradicts himself with.

As a hard working tax payer of Barrie I have never had trouble parking at the beach. even during those big festivals. On a normal summer day there has always been plenty of parking. If the $20 or $30 discourages people for coming that is money that will have to come out of the community through property tax rises to pay for that loss. That is nothing to snuff off.

I do love the water front. It isn't as nice as many of the other beaches that are around our area and yet another reason to be worried about as they have alternatives to go to without paying for a beach that really is sub par compared to the competition. But with making it free, it makes up for that and allows people to at least enjoy the summer season with their family.

Hats off to both locals AND out of towners who pick up garbage. We all must play a part in keeping the beach clean, including locals who think they are privileged enough to leave the mess behind.

Here is prove of Barrie's growth
http://www.cbj.ca/business_in_action/municipal/city_of-barrie.html

Anyone who drives the streets of Barrie knows it is growing, try driving mapleveiw between 3 and 6 or try and get a spot at the city marina.

So is it ok that people from out of town charge me to park and use their beaches, but can come to ours for free?

Festivals is another thing, but on a normal summer day its nice to know the hard working tax payers of Barrie will have a parking space and room on the beach, if charging $20 to $30 discourages some people from coming.

I love what the city of Barrie is doing with my tax dollars in regards to our parks, I've lived from coast to coast in this great country of ours and claim that the Barrie water front is one of the nicest. Hats of to the city planners and maintenance workers for the great work they do. Also it does me proud to see locals picking up trash rather then just walking by it thinking someone else will get it.

I am a long time Barrie resident and I think making the parking free is an excellent idea. Making our visitors pay for parking is just foolish given our economy. We were a boom town when we had the molsen plant and the concerts. But since we have lost those and now we have very poor job growth, people are starting to leave. Making it paid parking will only make the situation worse as we are cutting off one of the last incomes we have.

Is it over crowded. Why yes, when there is a festival or it is the long weekends. It is supposed to be as that is what makes us money AND showed we were successfull. Yes i pay taxes. But I am not subzidising those visitors. They are paying our local taxes every time they buy something. Then there is the funding we get from both the federal government and the province, which show that they pay just as much taxes as we do.

Lastly I hear complaints about garbage but I have seen no proof that it is the out of towners leaving the mess. There is a ton of garbage right there, right now and we have had no festivals for this year yet. Are out of towners responsible for that as well? Of course not. We all have a responsibility to the garbage we create. It isn't just one group. We are all to blame.

I should have added this in my last post. But here is the bottom line. Both locals and out of towners pay taxes. It's the management that counts but that goes beyond this discussion on the beach

Also, what about many of us that are not from toronto and live just outside the boarder? This move doesn't make sense and the results of Innisfill and Toronto show this

I really don't understand Carl's comments.

Take 100 tax paying Barrie citizens who use the beach daily and then take a few out of towners who only are there on the long weekends or special events that also not only pay taxes but add to the econnomy.

It shows, if he did his math, that the beach is not over crowded because of out of towners. If he keeps claiming we are the "fastest growing city" in the country, then it would validate the statment that locals are over crowding the beach, especially since they are there whether there is a long weekend or festaval or not. Worse yet, many locals do not contribute to our local economy and why would they. They "pay taxes".

Who said they were getting it for free? I guess that is Carls logic again. But then again he thinks we are growing and then blames out of towners for crowding. If anything the actions of charging for the water front shows a decline in our population if we now have to resort to these tactics.

I know about innisfill and Toronto and both examples have been failures. Why do you think many families came to our beach to spend their money over those two beaches? If one has to pay for our beach, those beaches will now get service as there is no reason to travel to our beach. Thus a loss of revenu.

This is a good idea because the whole charging for a beach smells of elitism that puts individuals above what is good for the community as a whole.

It shows that we are unwelcoming and those that live here will be turned off and even more people will leave as we raise property taxes to make up for the lost revenu from the beach.

There is a reason why it was "free" for many many years. Because in the end, those few long weekends and festivals have been a revenu generator for the city. Without it, will only mean further decline in the Barrie population as it toasts the last thing we have

Anonymous, you claim that Barrie residents are over crowding the beach and adding out of towers would not add to this problem?? Take 100 tax paying Barrie people and add 100 non tax paying out of towers and that is more people, a 100 more people if my math is right.

The city of Barrie does not have a population decline problem it is one of the fastest growing cities in Canada.

Many cities all ready do this including Toronto and our neighbour innisfil, and having lived in Innisfil for ten years, I still saw many out of towners glad to pay $20 to enjoy our beaches with their families.

Carl, you claim that Barrie is growing everyday. So wouldn't that mean that the people you claim that is over crowding the beach are in fact Barrie Residents and NOT people from Toronto.

With your logic, it indicates why it should be free as the people that do come from Toronto are the ones that provide the cash to our city. However with this decision, it will definitely add to our population decline

Very much disagree, the beach area is becoming over crowed with people from Toronto and leaving no room for the people who pay tax dollars to build and maintain these beaches. Barrie is growing everyday and until we start adding to our city beach front we are running out of room.

Why shouldn't it be revisited before then? If it reaches 500 votes that shows that there is interest to make it free. Doing this does not make the down town more commercially attractive, nor will it support the cities parking needs. People are not stupid and will go elsewhere. Which is why I think this posted idea is a good one.

So agree with you Jay, well said

As a non resident who comes to Barrie for nearly all summer festivals, I can say I was very disappointed with the decision to charge non- residents to park at the waterfront. My family spends several hundred dollars at Kempenfest alone - pumping money into the Barrie economy. We made the decision this year to not attend Barrie festivals out of protest because the very concept of only charging non-residents is disrespectful and sends a poor message. Barrie needs to remember that there are other communities in close proximity that also have beautiful waterfronts and that do not charge for parking. There are alternatives and my family has chosen to investigate those alternatives in 2014. We are only one family but I am certain that if we have chosen to take our money elsewhere-other families must feel the same way. I urge Barrie to reconsider this decision. You have festivals that have made it to the top 100 list for Ontario -- don't insult the integrity of these festivals with greed.

A great idea. If we bring in more shops at lakeshore, this will boost business and help lower our tax dollars